tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post3670831677514185686..comments2024-03-16T17:47:07.792-04:00Comments on Stationary Waves: You're More Of A Libertarian Than You ThinkRP Longhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15028013805248797978noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-73193237501764023212013-04-15T10:14:29.101-04:002013-04-15T10:14:29.101-04:00Ha - you have your own lexicon! Excellent. I shall...Ha - you have your own lexicon! Excellent. I shall have to check that out before I comment further :)Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192667997950934790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-14062526948357848002013-04-15T10:12:35.755-04:002013-04-15T10:12:35.755-04:00Haha, nah. I said what I meant. My blog is my resp...Haha, nah. I said what I meant. My blog is my respository for words as I like to use them. You can feel free to check out The Stationary Waves Lexicon if you're concerned about my use of language. I try to keep a list of special-use words and phrases there to avoid this kind of miscommunication.<br /><br />At any rate "affiliation" is not the sort of word that can ever be used ambiguously or confusingly. If that word doesn't sit well with you, choose whatever synonym you prefer. Affiliation works well for me here. <br />http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/affiliated<br />RP Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15028013805248797978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-83670595339059910142013-04-15T10:05:17.730-04:002013-04-15T10:05:17.730-04:00I think "affiliation" is probably the wr...I think "affiliation" is probably the wrong word. I can be pretty idiosyncratic and don't feel "affiliated" with any group for the most part. But I can recognize that when I talk about random things I think some people nod their heads more often than other people. That's simply a distributional claim... no need to invoke affiliations.<br /><br />I think my general sense of "libertarian" is broader than the movement. I'm having trouble pinning down exactly what you mean by the term. It seems very different from how the word is usually used. Maybe you just mean the liberal tradition.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192667997950934790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-55825201085269895972013-04-15T09:56:34.804-04:002013-04-15T09:56:34.804-04:00You're probably right there. Good thing I'...You're probably right there. Good thing I'm not too worried about satisfying a group of people who self-identify as libertarians. ;)RP Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15028013805248797978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-21345337178939394622013-04-15T09:55:37.209-04:002013-04-15T09:55:37.209-04:00Again, I think you're just looking at libertar...Again, I think you're just looking at libertarianism too narrowly. There is no "uphill battle" for anyone who is not part of a movement. Libertarianism is a set of ideas, not a political team. I'm not battling anything as the member of a group of people called "libertarians."<br /><br />You really ought to review my (still unfinished) series on Individuality, because you seem to be coming from an angle of political affiliation implying group affiliation. I try hard on my blog to delineate a person's social motivations from his/her existential ones. In this case, you are describing libertarians' social motivations. The point I am making above, however, pertains only to their existential ones.<br />RP Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15028013805248797978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-2746346396408440202013-04-15T09:53:22.126-04:002013-04-15T09:53:22.126-04:00I'd agree that that's universal too, but t...I'd agree that that's universal too, but that's a very wide reading of libertarian. I can't imagine self-identified libertarians would be satisfied with just that. There are big differences of opinion on exactly what limits we're talking about.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192667997950934790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-87922437156428995702013-04-15T09:51:45.079-04:002013-04-15T09:51:45.079-04:00Oh yes, and the substance is great. I guess I just...Oh yes, and the substance is great. I guess I just feel like when you write something like this:<br /><br /><i>"On a gut level, we all accept the plain truth of Hayek's Knowledge Problem. So long as we use modern language to express what we're talking about, everyone is on-board. But the minute we frame it in economic terms, people start to choose ideological "sides" based on preconceived notions of what it means to be "pro-market" or "libertarian.""</i><br /><br />I think that a lot of those "preconceived notions" are there for a reason, and that there's more of an uphill battle for libertarians than just pointing out that Hayek's knowledge problem makes a point most people already agree with.<br />Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192667997950934790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-47466396357353968632013-04-15T09:49:41.864-04:002013-04-15T09:49:41.864-04:00This is a fair point. I think you are looking at l...This is a fair point. I think you are looking at libertarianism too narrowly, however. Your focus is on "movement libertarianism," which I am not particularly fond of. But the point I'm getting at is that a general belief in government of limited size and scope prevails in the United States (and I would argue that this concept is universal, but I did not make that argument here). RP Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15028013805248797978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-86863987033118546922013-04-15T09:47:46.380-04:002013-04-15T09:47:46.380-04:00Daniel, please see my previous blog post on the la...Daniel, please see my previous blog post on the language of morality versus the language of existence:<br />http://www.stationarywaves.com/2013/02/the-individual-part-i.html<br /><br />Linguistic philosophers, semoticians, etc. understand the role language has on perspective. This generally understood concept is really all I'm getting at here. It should be uncontroversial for the most part.<br /><br />The leftists call this "framing." RP Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15028013805248797978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-58037392761089469032013-04-15T09:46:15.589-04:002013-04-15T09:46:15.589-04:00Let me pose it another way.
I agree on a lot of t...Let me pose it another way.<br /><br />I agree on a lot of the substance you present here. Hayek's great IMO. Classical liberals are great IMO. If you just explain the logic, most Americans would agree with you and me on that.<br /><br />So why is libertarianism such a small movement? Are people too dumb to self-identify, or are <i>you</i> making a mistake by identifying classical liberalism with libertarianism? Or is there another possibility? I suspect you are making a mistake. Libertarianism seems to me to be something much more specific than what you are talking about here.<br /><br />You like things about libertarianism (it's classical liberal elements) that I like about liberalism and that a conservative probably likes about conservatism. Classical liberalism is an enlightening and uplifting foundation. For the varieties of liberalism that you find in America today. We all like our classical liberalism. I'm not a libertarian because I don't like the more specific things you all think about the role of the state in society, not because I have a problem with our common classical liberalism.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192667997950934790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-45542136175555169182013-04-15T09:40:45.488-04:002013-04-15T09:40:45.488-04:00You seem to just be arguing that most Americans ha...You seem to just be arguing that most Americans have classical liberal ideas. I agree with that, but that seems wildly different from the title claim.<br /><br />It's like you want to argue that if you care about liberty and consider the motives and capacities of politicians suspect, that's a libertarian thing. That doesn't seem right at all to me.<br /><br />If you want to define things that way, then sure we're all libertarians. But I don't know why you'd want to define things that way.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192667997950934790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-2888270637249222652013-04-12T17:01:06.708-04:002013-04-12T17:01:06.708-04:00...bringing "I, Pencil" into the digital......bringing "I, Pencil" into the digital age. Well done!Murphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11865623200954289332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-90738561587094650482013-04-12T14:27:44.962-04:002013-04-12T14:27:44.962-04:00Hmmmmm . . Hmmmmm . . BenMechhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07558506307850606287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4491040877840120845.post-87420928094384914752013-04-12T13:39:48.799-04:002013-04-12T13:39:48.799-04:00This is a fantastic explanation of a complex topic...This is a fantastic explanation of a complex topic. You should really consider writing a few books. Start with just one though... Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339608923788869011noreply@blogger.com